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Thread: May be to late!

  1. #1

    May be to late!

    Hi,
    I am new to this site and need some help.
    I have a aged Koi - i'm guesing 20 years old (I inherited the fish 15 years ago), now 60cm long, 12.5lb. He/she is my last remaining larger Koi and started to show signs of ill health 2 weeks ago (swimming oddly, not eating etc.) I have checked the water, PH (7.5) and no sign of Ammonia, Nitrate or Nitrite. The pond is small 750 gallons but a good flow of water so don't think oxygen is a problem. Only a few smaller fish remain and they show no signs of ill health. Oddly, the fish now 'plays dead' and lies at the bottom but when I touch it it swims away normally (for a while) then reverts back to playing dead. Only over the last 2 days has it showed physical signs (scores, redness etc.) so I have attached pics and I'm now sure someone will know what it is? Thank you everyone, I think I'm too late but I need to know what is wrong - disease - old age etc. before I make a decision to finally re-stock for the first time in many years.


    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Hi, I'm definitely no expert but that poor thing looks very ill. Its not likely that anybody can diagnose accurately from a picture, but to me it looks possibly like a bacterial infection/very stressed fish.
    In regards to re-stocking can I respectfully suggest that a 750 gallon pond with already some small fish in is stocked enough.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Difficult to assess from a picture .

    You really need to do a skin scrape to see what is going on (possible parasites)
    but that looks like a bacterial infection to me or very stressed .

    You say you have checked your water and no signs of NitrAte ?

    Thats almost impossible in a pond seeing as its in our mains water and is the end product of the filtration process so i would suspect your test kit as maybe out of date or simple test strips which are hit and miss .

    Any more info would help , any meds recently put in the pond , new fish etc etc

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by peterwhayward View Post
    Hi, I'm definitely no expert but that poor thing looks very ill. Its not likely that anybody can diagnose accurately from a picture, but to me it looks possibly like a bacterial infection/very stressed fish.
    In regards to re-stocking can I respectfully suggest that a 750 gallon pond with already some small fish in is stocked enough.

    Hope this helps.
    Thank you Peter for your reply - I shall certainly take the size of pond into account should I decide to add anymore fish in future!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmel View Post
    Difficult to assess from a picture .

    You really need to do a skin scrape to see what is going on (possible parasites)
    but that looks like a bacterial infection to me or very stressed .

    You say you have checked your water and no signs of NitrAte ?

    Thats almost impossible in a pond seeing as its in our mains water and is the end product of the filtration process so i would suspect your test kit as maybe out of date or simple test strips which are hit and miss .

    Any more info would help , any meds recently put in the pond , new fish etc etc
    Thanks for your reply - Everything does point to a bacterial infection or stress, based on what I have read so far but why a fish should suddenly become stressed after 15 years in the same pond I have no idea if the water quality is good? To answer your question - I have re-tested for Nitrate and it says 5.0ppm which I understand is low (I have used a new API Freshwater Master test kit). I have also added 'MediFin' 5 days ago. Lastly, 2 new Koi (15cms) from World of Water were added 2 weeks ago? Lastly, I have never had any diseased fish in 15 years so I find this most unusual!

  6. #6
    so presumably all was well for years and 2 weeks ago you added 2 fish from World of Water, one week later added medifin (was this because your fish was lying on bottom ? ) and last few days the fish lying on bottom looks to be ill.

  7. #7
    That's just about it ukblaster. I added Medifin at the first sign of possible infection and when the larger fish started to show an abnormal swimming pattern. Sadly, it looks like I'm going to be digging a large hole in the garden this weekend. So what do I do after that - when is it 'safe' to introduce one or two new fish?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai gordon1's Avatar
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    hi john sorry to hear aboult the koi,but you say world of water ,I bet you did not do a scrape on them,and I bet you that is where the prob as come from the two new koi,trust me on this one ,never buy koi from wow,with out putting them in a q/tank and then do scrapes ,im in reading and the one there is always having probs ,for example main pond out back 9 koi 30inch was swimming like they should 3 weeks ago went there on Tuesday 7 out of the 9 layed up fins clamped ,alucers.spoke to them ,and the reply was they are getting use to there new pond wot a load of poo,they have had them since jan,so like I said if you buy from them again,be careful m8 ,and don't know if you no this but not all of therekoi are jap ...90% are israeli koi but unless you ask they will not tell you sorry aboult the big fellow ,you must be gutted

  9. #9
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Adult Champion Bigmel's Avatar
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    Agree with the others about the New additions being the probable cause .

    i,m not 100 % sure on this but you can bring a koi into your pond with a bacterial problem and that koi be fine , but your existing stock might not have a immunity to this bacteria ....thats how i understand it any way .

    The WOW near me is not to bad as the staff seem pretty knowledgeable BUT all there systems are connected and use the same filter so i,m not surprised koi from there outlets might be carrying some extras

    As far as adding any more i would wait at least 2 weeks after any problems disappear

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by gordon1 View Post
    hi john sorry to hear aboult the koi,but you say world of water ,I bet you did not do a scrape on them,and I bet you that is where the prob as come from the two new koi,trust me on this one ,never buy koi from wow,with out putting them in a q/tank and then do scrapes ,im in reading and the one there is always having probs ,for example main pond out back 9 koi 30inch was swimming like they should 3 weeks ago went there on Tuesday 7 out of the 9 layed up fins clamped ,alucers.spoke to them ,and the reply was they are getting use to there new pond wot a load of poo,they have had them since jan,so like I said if you buy from them again,be careful m8 ,and don't know if you no this but not all of therekoi are jap ...90% are israeli koi but unless you ask they will not tell you sorry aboult the big fellow ,you must be gutted
    Thanks for taking the time to write Gordon. I went to see WOW Watford today and guess what I saw in the tank next to the one I bought from - one dead Koi - all priced at £100 each - they didn't seem too bothered but some staff were helpful and did admit they were from Israel and therefore cheap?. They say the tanks are not linked but what do I know. I informed them of my problems but what can they do. I'm on a steep learning curve here but the old boy is still hanging on in there. Tried a salt bath tonight and put him back in but I feel he won't last - just so unhappy to kill something I've been feeding for so many years when it 'may' not be my fault! Should I buy anymore - where do I go?

  11. #11
    Thanks Bigmel - this experience has really opened my eyes to all things Koi and it's getting more complicated by the minute. Having an established pond, built over 30 years ago (I moved in 18 years ago) I hadn't realised how everything has moved on. I hadn't introduced any new fish for 14 years and as I said to Gordon, I need to find out where to go before I do anything else!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai gordon1's Avatar
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    Hi john , I would leave the pond now for a while and just sit and watch your other koi you put it to c if they are flashing on the pond walls or solid objects if any in pond , if all seems ok after that , indeed buy a another , if you go up the a1m to baldock services go left on the exit rd just follow that rd your come to japanese koi company they are very very good some inexpensive koi and one chag at 12,000 it's worth a trip just to see it hope all goes well and fingers x for the koi don't give up on it it may just pick up

  13. #13
    The other place I visit in that area is a little further up the A1 at Wyboston. avenue fisheries, is been there for years .

  14. #14
    Senior Member Rank = Rokusai gordon1's Avatar
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    Hi john post code for the jap koi company is SG166BB , hitchin road , henlow, not to far from you hope this may help

  15. #15
    Its always risky introducing new to an established lot, and I'm sorry to hear your koi may not make it, I lost my Ochiba last year and had her for 8 yrs fed out my hand daily, huge loss in the pond and I was totally gutted, she was so heavy I could hardly lift her out the pond!

    Its a difficult question to answer regarding where to buy koi from next,

    The trouble with bacteria is we can't see or deal with it sometimes early enough, parasites a pain but can be eradicated simply enough.
    I believe I have lost many of my koi to introducing new ones that have not been properly quarantined, and these are from some excellent dealers.

    If you really want to go down the route of introducing new koi I would seriously speaking to the particular dealer you choose to go for, and find out as much as possible regarding their quarantine procedures,
    But even with this info the proper procedure is to quarantine firstly, if you don't have access to this then a scrape and salt dip will be the next best thing.

    I worked in an establishment like the one you bought your koi from, and I can honestly tell you they don't quarantine, the koi come in and are up for sale within 24 hours, not good :


    Regards
    Steve

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by koicrazysteve View Post
    Its always risky introducing new to an established lot, and I'm sorry to hear your koi may not make it, I lost my Ochiba last year and had her for 8 yrs fed out my hand daily, huge loss in the pond and I was totally gutted, she was so heavy I could hardly lift her out the pond!

    Its a difficult question to answer regarding where to buy koi from next,

    The trouble with bacteria is we can't see or deal with it sometimes early enough, parasites a pain but can be eradicated simply enough.
    I believe I have lost many of my koi to introducing new ones that have not been properly quarantined, and these are from some excellent dealers.

    If you really want to go down the route of introducing new koi I would seriously speaking to the particular dealer you choose to go for, and find out as much as possible regarding their quarantine procedures,
    But even with this info the proper procedure is to quarantine firstly, if you don't have access to this then a scrape and salt dip will be the next best thing.

    I worked in an establishment like the one you bought your koi from, and I can honestly tell you they don't quarantine, the koi come in and are up for sale within 24 hours, not good :


    Regards
    Steve
    That's quite frightening really. Should be and possibly already is illegal.
    Very glad I no longer need to add stock to my pond and have not for several years, possibly why I've had no problems!. (shouldn't say that )

  17. #17
    Extreme Koi Member Rank = Nanasai bobchagi's Avatar
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    Hi John,pity its not a happier introduction to our forum and we all feel for you,koi keeping has a habit of biting you in the arse.You have already had loads of good sound advice so keep asking the questions take in whats being said and you will come through this,good luck,Bob.

 

 

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